I think that as much as people talk about Gabriel's departure as an inflection point, there was also a major change in direction after Steve Hackett's departure. His guitar work was such a fitting pairing to Banks' orchestral instincts.
This really works for me. You sidestep the tired Gabriel/Collins value judgment and instead treat The Longs as evidence—evidence that extended form never actually left the band. I’ve always had a slightly conflicted relationship with this phase of Genesis, but your framing of the Shorts/Longs split as curation rather than compromise feels exactly right. Also appreciate the candour about the compression and sonic limits of the recording—love doesn’t require pretending everything sounds perfect.
Thanks Howard. I’m not sure what went on with the recording (and/or mixing) of ‘The Longs’. I do wish ‘Old Medley’ was sonically better, and that Genesis were interested enough in their archive to do something about it.
The SDE of ‘The Lamb’ raises the hope that better will come, in time.
Thanks for reminding me, Daryl Stuermer was in Genesis. Coming from Milwaukee it was truly amazing to see him spread his wings after Sweetbottom. The late great George Duke discovered his talent which led to him joining Jean Luc Ponty and eventually to Genesis. There’s no arguing the amount of talent “prog or pop” Genesis had and no matter what your preference, it’s way, way better than the generic, drivel that passes for music today. So glad I found this post and look forward to reading past and future articles.
I would say Ian strikes true all the way. I prefer prog Genesis, Gabriel Genesis, yet, I won't lie that I adore Invisible Touch as a pure pop album and I recall being surrounded by it every single turn in the 80s to the point of much aggravation, considering I was a pure metalhead at the time. Yet, I wanted to hear the legendary prog stuff even during my teens, so I dug into Trespass, Wind & Wuthering, Foxtrot and Selling England and was like, "Whoa...." It helped me appreciate Invisible Touch, maybe not in the moment, but later on in my listening and eventually music journalism career. It's remarkably affective and infectious album that certainly took hold of the flame carried forward by Abacab and the ST.
Genesis are one of those few bands I give a pass to for their drastic change from one extreme dynamic to another, because Invisible Touch is just that damned good. We Can't Dance to the end, meh. Collins usurping Genesis to a pop verve in the same as what Peter Cetera did to Chicago, albeit, Genesis as a pop band had far more integrity than Cetera's shameful soft soaping of a funk, rock, country, folk juggernaut. Cetera is unforgivable. Collins less so, even if he fell into a stuck mojo as a songwriter once making that shift.
As someone who has everything Genesis ever recorded, and saw them live in every show in the NYC area from 1976 (for which I worked when I was Asst. Stage Mgr of the Beacon Theater) to 1984, I have a fairly broad perspective.
Keeping in mind that any lists or comments on any form of art (music, film, dance, TV, fashion, etc.) are hopelessly subjective, I would say that Genesis started to become "pop-py" with Abacab (which nevertheless has the fabulous Dodo/Lurker), and "cemented" themselves as a "pop" band (if that is the word one wants to use) with Invisible Touch. Yes, it has Tonight, Tonight and the Domino Suite, but most of the rest is in a more "commercial" vein, as most of Abacab and Genesis were as well.
The last truly fabulous album was And Then There Were Three (even with the loss of guitarist Steve Hackett), and even Duke had its unique charm. But there were more and more "pop" songs and fewer and fewer "progressive" compositions. (And note the difference between "song" and "composition.")
I love almost all of Genesis, for different reasons. The Gabriel era obviously gave us the more progressive side of the band on a consistent basis. Starting with Trespass (particularly, but not solely, the Knife), through Nursery Cryme (Hogweed, Musical Box, Fountain of Salmacis), through Foxtrot (virtually every track), through Selling England (every track), and the almost impossible concept album, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, the group was relentless in offering the best of progressive rock.
It was not surprising that Collins took the band in a slightly different direction while maintaining their progressive roots, particularly on Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering (I could write an entire article about the latter, its exceptional and unique elements, and its singular influence on what became "neo-prog.")
Ultimately, all Genesis music is "Genesis," even if not all of it is "progressive" rock.
Thanks for this. Sadly, it does not get me any closer to actually finding it, or actual footage from it. Given that some of it was filmed at the shows I attended, I would be very interested in obtaining a copy. ??
Thank you your very perceptive comment, Ian. For the record, I agree with your thoughts. Although the balance between pop and prog changes in the later albums, I do think the prog compositions tend to get overlooked (apart from those of us who have everything ever released, of course).
I love the evolution of Genesis. They could have stuck in the early seventies forever, as some seem to wish, but what would be the point?
I’m currently drafting a long piece about The Lamb for The Waiting Room website, and am involved with a book about Trick. I think you might have some valuable input for the book if you would like - may I come back you to you in the future about that?
Thank you for your response. You may pick my brains about anything at any time. My history in the entertainment business is extensive, and I am currently writing a book of "anecdotes" of people I've met and/or worked with.
Among other things, I spent a year as Asst. Stage Mgr. at the Beacon Theater during its second year as a concert hall. By chance, MSG was closed for repairs that year, so all the major groups were scrambling to find spots at Radio City, Felt Forum, Academy of Music, and the Beacon. We got (among others) Genesis (TOTT tour, with Bruford), Queen (NATO tour), Bob Marley an the Wailers, 10CC (I'm Not in Love tour), and many others. I also spent 11 years as a personal assistant to Les Paul, through whom I met and/or worked with many of the top guitarists, music industry moguls, etc. I then spent 10 years running a PR/event management firm (my own), specializing in high-profile. celebrity-driven fundraising events. And MORE A-listers in music, film, fashion, etc.
Here's a question for you. A film was made of the TOTT tour, called Sensasia, which seems to have disappeared entirely from the world. I have found bits and pieces on YT, but have never been able to locate the actual film. I wonder if all copies were pulled and destroyed and, if so, why.
BTW, here is an article I wrote for Culture Catch, an arts and culture ezine run by a former EIC of Creem Magazine. It may give you additional ideas for your article, as well as things to pick my brain about (lol):
I think that as much as people talk about Gabriel's departure as an inflection point, there was also a major change in direction after Steve Hackett's departure. His guitar work was such a fitting pairing to Banks' orchestral instincts.
Yes, Dan, agreed. It look me a long time to really appreciate ‘… and Then There Were Three …’.
They were a different sounding band after Hackett left (even though he would sometimes be kept low in the mix).
This really works for me. You sidestep the tired Gabriel/Collins value judgment and instead treat The Longs as evidence—evidence that extended form never actually left the band. I’ve always had a slightly conflicted relationship with this phase of Genesis, but your framing of the Shorts/Longs split as curation rather than compromise feels exactly right. Also appreciate the candour about the compression and sonic limits of the recording—love doesn’t require pretending everything sounds perfect.
Thanks Howard. I’m not sure what went on with the recording (and/or mixing) of ‘The Longs’. I do wish ‘Old Medley’ was sonically better, and that Genesis were interested enough in their archive to do something about it.
The SDE of ‘The Lamb’ raises the hope that better will come, in time.
Hi Gina, thank you for your comment and I hope you enjoy reading more of my writing. It's all there in the archive, and there's much more to come.
I completely agree with your comments about Genesis. I do have a preference but I'm always happy to listen to any Genesis album.
I trust all is good with you.
Thanks for reminding me, Daryl Stuermer was in Genesis. Coming from Milwaukee it was truly amazing to see him spread his wings after Sweetbottom. The late great George Duke discovered his talent which led to him joining Jean Luc Ponty and eventually to Genesis. There’s no arguing the amount of talent “prog or pop” Genesis had and no matter what your preference, it’s way, way better than the generic, drivel that passes for music today. So glad I found this post and look forward to reading past and future articles.
I would say Ian strikes true all the way. I prefer prog Genesis, Gabriel Genesis, yet, I won't lie that I adore Invisible Touch as a pure pop album and I recall being surrounded by it every single turn in the 80s to the point of much aggravation, considering I was a pure metalhead at the time. Yet, I wanted to hear the legendary prog stuff even during my teens, so I dug into Trespass, Wind & Wuthering, Foxtrot and Selling England and was like, "Whoa...." It helped me appreciate Invisible Touch, maybe not in the moment, but later on in my listening and eventually music journalism career. It's remarkably affective and infectious album that certainly took hold of the flame carried forward by Abacab and the ST.
Genesis are one of those few bands I give a pass to for their drastic change from one extreme dynamic to another, because Invisible Touch is just that damned good. We Can't Dance to the end, meh. Collins usurping Genesis to a pop verve in the same as what Peter Cetera did to Chicago, albeit, Genesis as a pop band had far more integrity than Cetera's shameful soft soaping of a funk, rock, country, folk juggernaut. Cetera is unforgivable. Collins less so, even if he fell into a stuck mojo as a songwriter once making that shift.
As someone who has everything Genesis ever recorded, and saw them live in every show in the NYC area from 1976 (for which I worked when I was Asst. Stage Mgr of the Beacon Theater) to 1984, I have a fairly broad perspective.
Keeping in mind that any lists or comments on any form of art (music, film, dance, TV, fashion, etc.) are hopelessly subjective, I would say that Genesis started to become "pop-py" with Abacab (which nevertheless has the fabulous Dodo/Lurker), and "cemented" themselves as a "pop" band (if that is the word one wants to use) with Invisible Touch. Yes, it has Tonight, Tonight and the Domino Suite, but most of the rest is in a more "commercial" vein, as most of Abacab and Genesis were as well.
The last truly fabulous album was And Then There Were Three (even with the loss of guitarist Steve Hackett), and even Duke had its unique charm. But there were more and more "pop" songs and fewer and fewer "progressive" compositions. (And note the difference between "song" and "composition.")
I love almost all of Genesis, for different reasons. The Gabriel era obviously gave us the more progressive side of the band on a consistent basis. Starting with Trespass (particularly, but not solely, the Knife), through Nursery Cryme (Hogweed, Musical Box, Fountain of Salmacis), through Foxtrot (virtually every track), through Selling England (every track), and the almost impossible concept album, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, the group was relentless in offering the best of progressive rock.
It was not surprising that Collins took the band in a slightly different direction while maintaining their progressive roots, particularly on Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering (I could write an entire article about the latter, its exceptional and unique elements, and its singular influence on what became "neo-prog.")
Ultimately, all Genesis music is "Genesis," even if not all of it is "progressive" rock.
This is great. I’ll digest it properly and get back to you soon, Ian.
No problem. Just let me know. Peace.
Hi Ian, I’ve been sent a little info about Sensasia. It seems it became the Genesis film that was released in the mid seventies. An ad is here:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10225956059032334&set=p.10225956059032334&type=3
All the best,
Ian
Thanks for this. Sadly, it does not get me any closer to actually finding it, or actual footage from it. Given that some of it was filmed at the shows I attended, I would be very interested in obtaining a copy. ??
If anything else comes up while we’re researching Trick I’ll let you know.
If that link doesn’t work via Substack, email me at ian.sharp@gmail.com and I’ll send it that way.
Thank you your very perceptive comment, Ian. For the record, I agree with your thoughts. Although the balance between pop and prog changes in the later albums, I do think the prog compositions tend to get overlooked (apart from those of us who have everything ever released, of course).
I love the evolution of Genesis. They could have stuck in the early seventies forever, as some seem to wish, but what would be the point?
I’m currently drafting a long piece about The Lamb for The Waiting Room website, and am involved with a book about Trick. I think you might have some valuable input for the book if you would like - may I come back you to you in the future about that?
Thank you for your response. You may pick my brains about anything at any time. My history in the entertainment business is extensive, and I am currently writing a book of "anecdotes" of people I've met and/or worked with.
Among other things, I spent a year as Asst. Stage Mgr. at the Beacon Theater during its second year as a concert hall. By chance, MSG was closed for repairs that year, so all the major groups were scrambling to find spots at Radio City, Felt Forum, Academy of Music, and the Beacon. We got (among others) Genesis (TOTT tour, with Bruford), Queen (NATO tour), Bob Marley an the Wailers, 10CC (I'm Not in Love tour), and many others. I also spent 11 years as a personal assistant to Les Paul, through whom I met and/or worked with many of the top guitarists, music industry moguls, etc. I then spent 10 years running a PR/event management firm (my own), specializing in high-profile. celebrity-driven fundraising events. And MORE A-listers in music, film, fashion, etc.
Here's a question for you. A film was made of the TOTT tour, called Sensasia, which seems to have disappeared entirely from the world. I have found bits and pieces on YT, but have never been able to locate the actual film. I wonder if all copies were pulled and destroyed and, if so, why.
BTW, here is an article I wrote for Culture Catch, an arts and culture ezine run by a former EIC of Creem Magazine. It may give you additional ideas for your article, as well as things to pick my brain about (lol):
http://culturecatch.com/music/essential-progressive-rock-listening-guide